Colin Dance's Research
'I had a good day yesterday at the National Archives, Kew' - 6th February 2011
6th February 2011 I was able to make a start in researching Joseph Dance's 18 years as a Royal Marine Private later to become Corporal.
So far I have found two ships that Joseph had served on in a list. Below HMS Andromeda belonging to the Western Approaches Squadron ~ Plymouth and HMS Dublin belonging to the India Station ~ Colombo. That leaves HMS Superb and Billow ? to find. I'm up to 1831 and still have to research 1832 to 1838. On my next visit I hope to look at these remaining years and also look into the ships records and hospital records if available
First of all I thought you would like to see the size of our Naval fleet in the early 1800’s when Joseph was serving. It was in between war years and the fleet was rapidly expanding to protect a growing empire
Just compare it with the size of the fleet today !
Channel Fleet - Portsmouth HMS Royal George (1827) (120) HMS Royal William (1833) (120) HMS Britannia (1820) (120) HMS Prince Regent (1823) (120) HMS Neptune (1832) (120) HMS Howe (1815) (120) HMS Nelson (1814) (120) HMS Warspite (1833) (120) HMS Caledonia (1808) (120) HMS Saint Vincent (1815) (120) HMS Royal Adelaide (1828) (104) HMS Princess Charlotte (1825) (104) HMS Royal Adelaide (1828) (104) HMS Queen Charlotte (1810) (104) HMS Impregnable (1810) (98) HMS Boyne (1810) (98) HMS Rodney (1833) (92) HMS Bombay (1828) (84) HMS Asia (1824) (84) HMS Clarence (1827) (84) HMS Formidable (1825) (84) HMS Ganges (1821) (84) HMS Monarch (1832) (84) HMS Powerful (1826) (84) HMS Calcutta (1831) (84) HMS Thunderer (1831) (84) HMS Vengeance (1824) (84) HMS Bellerophon (1818) (84) HMS Diana (1822) (46) HMS Amphitrite (1816) (46) HMS Andromache (1832) (46) HMS Amazon (1821) (46) HMS Fisgard (1819) (46) HMS Latona (1821) (46) HMS Melampus (1820) (46) HMS Minerva (1820) (46) HMS Nereus (1809) (46) HMS Seringapatam (1819) (46) HMS Firebrand (1831) (6 gun paddle steamer) HMS Firefly (1832) (6 gun paddle steamer) HMS Flamer (1831) (6 gun paddle steamer)
Western Approaches Squadron ~ Plymouth HMS Genoa (1815) (74) HMS Hercules (1815) (74) HMS Redoubtable (1815) (74) HMS Blenheim (1813) (74) HMS Bellona (1812) (74) HMS Benbow (1813) (74) HMS Devonshire (1812) (74) HMS Hogue (1811) (74) HMS Medway (1812) (74) HMS Mulgrave (1812) (74) HMS Andromeda (1829) (46) HMS Circe (1826) (46) HMS Clyde (1828) (46) HMS Eurotas (1829) (46) HMS Fox (1829) (46) HMS Dartmouth (1813) (36) HMS Brilliant (1814) (36) HMS Pallas (1816) (36) HMS Menelaus (1810) (36) HMS Nymphe (1811) (36)
Nore Squadron ~ Chatham HMS Pembroke (1812) (74) HMS Scarborough (1812) (74) HMS Stirling Castle (1811) (74) HMS Ajax (1809) (74) HMS Armada (1810) (74) HMS Edinburgh (1811) (74) HMS Egmont (1810) (74) HMS Invincible (1808) (74) HMS Minden (1810) (74) HMS Poictiers (1809) (74) HMS Venus (1820) (46) HMS Forth (1833) (46) HMS Arethusa (1817) (46) HMS Blonde (1819) (46) HMS Sirius (1813) (46) HMS Tenedos (1812) (36) HMS Dryad (1795) (36) HMS Hamadryad (1795) (36) HMS Lancaster (1823) (36) HMS Castor (1832) (36)
Ireland Squadron ~ Cork HMS Illustrious (1803) (74) HMS Implacable (1795) (74) HMS Kent (1798) (74) HMS Penelope (1829) (46) HMS Present (1829) (46) HMS Proserpine (1830) (46) HMS Africaine (1827) (46) HMS Cerberus (1827) (46) HMS Nemesis (1826) (46)
Mediterranean Fleet ~ Malta HMS Russell (1822) (74) HMS Talavera (1818) (74) HMS Vanguard (1835) (74) HMS America (1810) (74) HMS Conquestador (1820) (74) HMS Eagle (1804) (74) HMS Gloucester (1812) (74) HMS Vindictive (1813) (74) HMS Cornwallis (1813) (74) HMS Defence (1815) (74) HMS Pitt (1816) (74) HMS Wellington (1817) (74) HMS Alfred (1808) (74) HMS Cornwall (1815) (74) HMS Anson (1812) (74) HMS Aeolus (1825) (46) HMS Daedalus (1826) (46) HMS Druid (1825) (46) HMS Hebe (1812) (46) HMS Mercury (1826) (46) HMS Mermaid (1825) (46) HMS Rhadamanthus (1826) (46) HMS Thames (1823) (46) HMS Thisbe (1824) (46) HMS Madagascar (1822) (46) HMS Seahorse (1830) (46) HMS Stag (1830) (46) HMS Thalia (1830) (46) HMS Blanche (1819) (46) HMS Unicorn (1824) (46)
Gibraltar Station ~ Gibraltar HMS Newcastle (1830) (60) HMS Southampton (1820) (60) HMS Isis (1819) (50) HMS Endymion (1797) (50) HMS Vernon (1832) (50) HMS Jupiter (1813) (50)
North America Station ~ Bermuda HMS San Josef (1797) (114) HMS Hibernia (1804) (110) HMS Camperdown (1820) (106) HMS Belleisle (1819) (74) HMS Carnatic (1823) (74) HMS Hastings (1819) (74) HMS Hawke (1820) (74) HMS Malabar (1818) (74) HMS Salisbury (1814) (58) HMS Java (1815) (52) HMS Portland (1822) (52) HMS Winchester (1822) (52) HMS Investigator (1811) (16) HMS Serpent (1832) (16) HMS Snake (1832) (16) HMS Racer (1833) (16)
West Indies Station ~ Kingston HMS Achille (1798) (74) HMS Donegal (1798) (74) HMS Egeria (1807) (26) HMS Conway (1832) (26) HMS Tribune (1803) (24) HMS Ariadne (1816) (20) HMS Royal Geroge (1809) (20) HMS Nimrod (1828) (20) HMS Columbia (1829) (3 gun paddle steamer)
South America Station ~ Falklands HMS Rhin (1806) (44) HMS Forth (1833) (44) HMS Amphitrite (1816) (44) HMS Unite (1793) (40)
West Africa Station ~ Freetown HMS Erebus (1826) (14) HMS Beacon (1823) (14) HMS Conflict (1812) (12) HMS Falcon (1820) (4 gun paddle steamer) HMS Dee (1832) (4 gun paddle steamer)
South Africa Station ~ Capetown HMS Cambridge (1815) (80) HMS Foudroyant (1798) (80) HMS Canopus (1797) (80) HMS Jaseur (1813) (18) HMS Pylades (1824) (18) HMS Racehorse (1830) (18) HMS Orestes (1824) (18) HMS Dublin
India Station ~ Colombo HMS Duncan (1811) (74) HMS Imaum (1836) (74) HMS Wellesley (1815) (74) HMS Barham (1811) (74) HMS Dublin (1812) (74) HMS Cumberland (1807) (74) HMS Pelorus (1808) (18) HMS Raleigh (1806) (18) HMS Satelite (1826) (18) HMS Scout (1832) (18) HMS Scylla (1809) (18) HMS Cruizer (1828) (18) HMS Carron (1827) (2 gun paddle steamer) HMS Alban (1826) (2 gun paddle steamer)
Australia Station ~ Sydney HMS Plover (1821) (10) HMS Algerine (1829) (10) HMS Aid (1809) (10) HMS Africa (1825) (2 gun paddle steamer)
1st Transport Fleet ~ Portsmouth HMS Undaunted (1807) (38) HMS Boadicea (1797) (38) HMS Apollo (1812) (38) HMS Forte (1814) (38) HMS Tartar (1814) (38) HMS Topaze (1814) (38) HMS Espoir (1826) (10) HMS Fairly (1823) (10) HMS Ferret (1821) (10) HMS Goldfinch (1808) (10) HMS Griffon (1832) (10) HMS Harpy (1825) (10) 1st Transport Flotilla 2nd Transport Flotilla 3rd Transport Flotilla 4th Transport Flotilla 5th Transport Flotilla 6th Transport Flotilla
2nd Transport Fleet ~ Malta HMS Owen Glendower (1808) (38) HMS Resistance (1805) (38) HMS Eclipse (1819) (10) HMS Emulous (1819) (10) 7th Transport Flotilla 8th Transport Flotilla
3rd Transport Fleet ~ Colombo HMS Leonidas (1807) (38) HMS Naiad (1797) (38) HMS Chanticleer (1808) (10) HMS Beagle (1820) (10) 9th Transport Flotilla 10th Transport Flotilla
Experimental Patrol Squadron ~ Portsmouth HMS Diana (1836) (4 gun paddle steamer) HMS Salamander (1832) (4 gun paddle steamer) HMS Medea (1833) (4 gun paddle steamer) HMS Phoenix (1832) (4 gun paddle steamer) HMS Comet (1822) (2 gun paddle steamer) HMS Confiance (1827) (2 gun paddle steamer)
Reserve Fleet ~ Plymouth HMS Revenge (1805) (74) HMS Spartiate (1797) (74) HMS Sultan (1807) (74) HMS Tremendous (1784) (74) HMS Agincourt (1817) (74) HMS Black Prince (1816) (74) HMS Melville (1817) (74) HMS Minotaur (1816) (74) HMS Hotspur (1828) (46) HMS Leda (1828) (46) HMS Laurel (1813) (38) HMS Trincomalee (1812) (38) HMS Bacchante (1811) (38) HMS Belvera (1811) (38) HMS Briton (1812) (38) HMS Crescent (1810) (38) HMS Galatea (1810) (38) HMS Havannah (1811) (38) HMS Mastone (1811) (38) HMS Apollo (1805) (38) HMS Horatio (1806) (38) HMS Pique (1834) (36) HMS Belvidera (1809) (36) HMS Astraea (1810) (36) HMS Semiramis (1808) (36) HMS Curacoa (1809) (36) HMS Imogene (1831) (28) HMS North Star (1824) (28) HMS Rainbow (1823) (28) HMS Rattlesnake (1822) (28) HMS Samarang (1822) (28) HMS Sapphire (1827) (28) HMS Talbot (1824) (28) HMS Crocodile (1825) (28) HMS Alligator (1821) (28) HMS Arachne (1809) (18) HMS Champion (1824) (18) HMS Comus (1828) (18) HMS Columbine (1826) (18) HMS Hyacinth (1829) (18) HMS Icarus (1814) (18) HMS Gannet (1814) (18) HMS Fly (1832) (18) HMS Favourite (1829) (18) HMS Bramble (1822) (10) HMS Britomart (1820) (10) HMS Cadmus (1808) (10) HMS Cameleon (1816) (10) HMS Basilisk (1822) (6) HMS Aetna (1824) (6) HMS Delight (1829) (4)
In 1820 The Plymouth Royal Marine division is made up of 20 Companies
3 , 7, 11, 15, 19, 23, 27, 31, 35, 39, 43, 47, 51, 55, 58, 61, 64, 67, 69 and 71 company
Each company was made up of approximately 50 men.
Attestation / discharge book ADM 158/218 found by June Dance
Joseph Dance was assigned to the 51st company on 9th October 1820 which you can see on the left hand column of his attestation / discharge record ( ref ADM 158/218}
He was 19 years old and 5 feet 7 ¼ inches tall . He was born in Stanton, Worcester.
He had brown hair, hazel eyes and fair complexion. He was enlisted by a Major Bunce in Gloucester not far from where he was born. He had previously been a labourer.
When he was discharged on 24th October 1838 he was said to be a good deal knock-kneed and suffering from headaches and vertigo.
I started by looking at the Payroll Musters for the Royal Marine Plymouth Division hoping to find his Company and information about the ships he may have served on. He was enlisted in 1820 so I started from there Each year has quarterly pay books .Each pay book contains payments made to all Royal marines in the 20 different companies.. Below is a list of the document numbers and Years and briefly what was found
1820 Pay Muster ADM98/387 1820
1820 Pay Muster ADM96/387
1st October to 31st December 1820 Plymouth Division 51st Company
Joseph Dance Recruit class 3 rating. Enlisted on 9th October commenced Plymouth 29th October 1820 - ...In right hand comments column is the date of his attestation and what looks like his service number 3 4 ? 3 1 . see photo below
Could this be Josephs service number ?
At this time the company had only 37 men. Made up mostly from other divisions presumably on secondment. Or training The wages for this quarter were made up of Plymouth 7 men. Portsmouth 18 men £ 44 – 6/- 9 d. Woolwich 1 man £1 5/- 8 ½ d. Chatham 11 recruits £16 5/- 9d all joining the company at different times during the pay quarter
The average wage for a Private appears to be £4. 6/- for 90 days period
Showing the Titles for Left page of 1820 Plymouth Div 51st company pay roll muster
Beer money was paid at 7 shillings and 8 pennies for a 90 day period and was not given if off sick !
Found nothing in these columns mostly left empty in this register
Last column shows where they were during this period and includes hospital and sickness dates
ADM 96/392 1821First quarter of payroll musters January to March show private Joseph Dance with 51 company which was now made up of 39 men from Plymouth division ,3 from Woolwich division and 8 from Chatham division. I should imagine these men must have been on secondment to boost the numbers or for training. It would be interesting to see if the 51st company was used for training new recruits. Joseph present on remaining years muster. No other comments in right hand column.
ADM 96/397 1822
Joseph is present on all this years musters. No ship duties yet .
Second quarter April to June he is billeted in a ‘ stationary quarter’ and given an allowance of 2/- 5 1/2 d
In third quarter musters July to August in right hand column is comment ‘ Inf 3 and 20'. Could this be infirmary ( sick bay ) on 3rd and 20th April ?
ADM 96/402 1823
Here in the second quarter 1st April to 30th June Joseph is moved to 58th company along with 4 other men from the 51st .. The 58th company has 57 men by September .
In the fourth quarter 1st October to 31st December he only received 25 days pay of £1 5/- instead of the 90 days.
This could be an indication that he had embarked on a ship as pay is only shown for the period that he is on station in Plymouth.
He has possibly embarked on board HMS SUPERB reference is found of her sailing in November only to return to Plymouth in December 1825.
Joseph is shown coming off Station payroll musters in last quarter 1823 and disembarking HMS SUPERB in December 1825.
The reference to this and interesting service history of HMS SUPERB can be found at http://www.ageofnelson.org/MichaelPhillips/info.php?ref=2139
Capt. Sir Thomas STAINES, 10/1823.
ADM 96/407 1824
No mention of Joseph in this years station musters. Believed to be on board HMS SUPERB in West Indies . Must look for Ships payroll musters. The next time his name is found is in ADM96-412 1825 showing that he has returned from the ship Superb/ Willow? A little difficult to make the second name out).
ADM 96/412 1825
No mention of him until the fourth quarter and is shown returning from the ship Superb/ willow ? in December. Need to check the ships musters
ADM 96/417 1826
He is mentioned In musters up to 21 July when marked that he had embarked. Need to check again for ship name. Although the next two years he is absent from the musters only to reappear on ADM 96-432 1829 December quarter disembarking from HMS Andromeda.
Found details of Andromeda 1 on web site http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/shipsTAS.html
Convicts and Convict Ships sent to Tasmania (& Victoria, Norfolk Island & NSW) 1812-1853.
Sailing from London 14 October 1826 arriving Tasmania 23rd February 1827.
Could Joseph have been embarked to HMS Andromeda in London and prepare to sail on 14th October ? It would be nice to find the ships musters
ADM 96/422 1827
Not mentioned in this years musters. Possibly on board HMS Andromeda in first and second quarters escorting prisoners ? Need to look for ships musters
ADM 96/427 1828
Not mentioned in this years Musters. Possibly onboard HMS Andromeda .Need to look for ships musters
ADM 96/432 1829
Joseph is mentioned as disembarking from HMS Andromeda in the December quarter musters. The National Archives staff have suggested checking the Admiralty ships muster ADM 37/8456.also ships medical journal ADM101/215
96/437 1830 (31st May to 30th Sept)
Joseph promoted from Private to Corporal in this quarter and transferred from 58
company to 11 company.
ADM 96/442 1831
First quarter show Joseph as hospitalized , On April 31st discharged from Hospital, Need to look at Royal Marines Hospital Plymouth records
In May he embarked on HMS Dublin.
HMS Dublin was built in 1812 and was the flag ship of the South Americas and Pacific . Joseph remained assigned to this ship from May 1831 to September 1834. References are made in the following ship logs :
37/ 8042 1831 Apr-Aug
ADM 37/8043 1831 Sept - 1832 Apr
ADM 37/8044 1832 May - Dec
ADM 37/8045 1833 Jan - Sept
ADM 37/8046 1833 Oct - 1834 June
ADM 37/8047 1834 July - Oct
Certifications made in the Payroll Musters ADM 96/387
I have taken a while to pass on my last findings from my visit to the
National Archives a few months ago but been very busy
I am now hoping to make another trip soon I thought I had better pass on
what I found before it gets lost in my filing system !! Unfortunately I
forgot to take my camera on that day so had to photo copy the large ADM
books and the size makes it difficult to rescan and email. I have
however attached the ADM showing Josephs move and promotion from Private
to Corporal from 58 company to 11 company Plymouth. Also the front
page from the 1831 Ships log for HMS
Dublin showing Joseph
amongst the Royal Marine contingent on board this prison ship sailing to
Australia . I will take my camera next time and retake the photos.
my last visit I was able to see many payroll Musters for Joseph which
helped show his movement between Companies in Plymouth. In brief what I
found was :
ADM 96 / 417 1st July to 30th Sept 1826 Plymouth 58th Company payroll musters show that on 21st July 1826 Joseph was dispatched to serve on board HMS JAVA .
Java was the third ship built over the years to be given that name. She
was a 52 gun fourth rate built at Plymouth dockyard in 1815
and served until broken up in 1862 in Portsmouth. I will try to
find the Ships logs to find out what her movements were when Joseph
served on board
96 / 437 1st
July to 30th Sept 1830 Joseph was promoted from Private
to Corporal and transferred to 11 company Plymouth on 13th August.
1830. 1st October to 31st December 1830 payroll musters show
him remaining on station in Plymouth.
96 / 459 1st January to 31st
March 1835 Joseph had
returned to 58 Company Plymouth and
was dispatched to HMS San Josef. He embarked on 20th March 1835 and
disembarked 1st August 1835
HMS San Josef was a 114-gun first rate ship of the line of the Royal Navy. She was captured from the Spanish Navy at the Battle of Cape St Vincent on 14 February 1797 (when she was still named in Spanish San José). In 1809 she served as the flagship of Admiral John Thomas Duckworth.
Battle of Cape St Vincent.
The San José was among the Spanish fleet during the battle, during which HMS Captain, under the command of Captain, Horatio Nelson came out of the line to attack the San Nicolás. After exchanging fire, Nelson led his forces aboard the San Nicolás. While the English were fighting their way aboard the San José continued to fire upon the Captain and the San Nicolás.
The San José then fell upon the San Nicolás and their rigging became tangled. Trapped, the men from the San José continued to fire on the British boarding parties with muskets and pistols. Nelson then took his men from the decks of the San Nicolás aboard the San José, forcing the Spanish to surrender, with their Admiral badly injured.
The San José and the San Nicolás, both captured by Nelson, were two of the four ships captured during the battle. After the prize they were renamed as HMS San Josef and HMS San Nicolas respectively. From 1839 San Josef was used as a gunnery training ship. From 10 August 1841 she was commanded by Captain Joseph Needham Tayler, serving as a guard ship at Plymouth (established gunnery school).
Other captains who served in her include: Captain Frederick William Burgoyne, while serving as the flagship of Samuel Pym, Plymouth; Captain Henry John Leeke; and Captain Thomas Maitland, as the flagship of Admiral William Hall Gage, Devonport.
She was broken up a Devonport in May 1849.A very small piece of the San Josef still survives to this day; it is in the form of part of a wooden gun carriage; called a Quoin. This quoin can be found among the Valhalla figurehead collection in Tresco Abbey Gardens in the Isles of Scilly.
have however just found a web page listing the movements of HMS Dublin
that tie in with Joseph Dance . I need to find out more about this web
page and where the originator got the information from
not sure how to find out who published this but it will
give me something to look into at National Archives.
you look at the above link you will see that HMS Dublin was in Hamoaze
( Devonport , Plymouth ) on 11 May 1831 this ties in nicely as in
the Plymouth Division 58th company payroll musters it shows Joseph as
being embarked on HMS Dublin. If you follow its progress it then goes to
Rio de Janeiro where it remains until 1833 !
then into the Pacific and onto Valpraiso in Chile for a refit
followed by several trips back and forth to Rio de Janeiro.
Finally returning home to Plymouth on 18th September 1834 This
would possibly account for why I have not been able to find Plymouth
division payroll musters for Joseph as he could have been away for this
period on board Dublin.
need to have a closer look and try and find the source of this web link.
Hope to resolve this mystery soon . Its amazing the distance travelled in those days ,in those ships with such little navigation equipment . We really do take it all for granted now....in fact travelling has become quite boring in comparison !!
Colin 18th of June 2011
Colin 18th of June 2011
through looking at ships musters that Joseph definitely did come
ships musters for HMS Dublin showing were she travelled to from
. She carried
a crew of 450 on board. There were 50 Royal
various ports on the
Atlantic coast to Teirra del Fuego at the tip
have photographed all logs showing he was on board for the complete
were many deserters who were
captured and became prisoners. He
Marines .To keep law and order on the ship. It must have been a
have become knock kneed as shown in discharge book as a result of
AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES
camera battery went flat and its a special charging adaptor which I
digital cameras that you can use. If you choose to print
got as far as finding out that Joseph returned to Plymouth in
returning in August 1835.
hope to go to the National Maritime museum to find out more about the
was running out of time so could’nt look at Captains logs to see what
was now 3pm and fast running out of time with the Archives due to
See attached files of final listing of the HMS Dublin's crew that served between 1831 and its decommissioning in 1834. This list is different to all the other years musters in that it shows the Marines profession before enlistment . It also shows their place of birth. I have attached the entry for Joseph Dance as it shows he was a labourer and born in STAUNTON ,WORCESTER. On your web page ' The Royal Marine Register ' the birth place is wrongly transcribed as STANTON WORCESTER in the register. Colin. 19th June 2011
Colin's Notes - 10th of October 2011
Joseph Dance was on board HMS |Dublin ( built 1812 ) for 3 years 4 months sailing around South America and into the Pacific ocean (May 1831 to September 1834)
HMS Dublin was a 'Third rate ship of the line'
In the British Royal Navy, a third rate was a ship of the line which from the 1720s mounted between 64 and 80 guns, typically built with two gun decks (thus the related term two-decker). Years of experience proved that the third rate ships embodied the best compromise between sailing ability (speed, handling), firepower, and cost. So, while first rates and second rates were both larger and more powerful, the third-rate ships were in a real sense the optimal configuration. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
When the rating system was first established in the 1620s, the third rate was defined as those ships having at least 200 but not more than 300 men. By the 1660s, the means of classification had shifted from the number of men to the number of carriage-mounted guns, and third rates at that time mounted between 48 and 60 guns. By the turn of the century, the criteria had grown and third rate carried more than 60 guns, with second rates having between 90 and 98 guns, while first rates had 100 guns or more, and fourth rates between 48 and 60 guns. By the latter half of the 18th century, they carried between 500 and 720 men.
This designation became especially common because it included the 74-gun ship, which eventually came to be the most popular size of large ship for navies of several different nations. It was an easier ship to handle than a first- or second-rate ship, but still possessed enough firepower to potentially destroy any single opponent other than a three-decker. It was also cheaper to operate.
Ship of the
A ship-of-the-line was a type of naval warship constructed from the 17th through the mid-19th century to take part in the naval tactic known as the line of battle, in which two columns of opposing warships would manoeuvre to bring the greatest weight of broadside guns to bear. Since these engagements were almost invariably won by the heaviest ships carrying the most powerful guns, the natural progression was to build sailing vessels that were the largest and most powerful of their time.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
HMS Victory in 1884, the only surviving example of a ship-of-the-line
I have been in contact with the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich to try and find paintings or plans of HMS Dublin 1812 originally a 74 gun third rate ship of the line which in 1826 was reduced to a 40 gun ship.
The Museum have found this photo of HMS Dublin taken around 1880 when she had been decommissioned and was used as a fitting hulk for ships in the reserve. A deck had been removed when she was reduced from 70 guns to 40 guns so you get an idea of how large it was.
Unfortunately no plans exist. The reason is given in this very helpful email reply from their plans and photos department :
The lack of plans specific to Dublin is not unusual. As drawings had to be copied out by hand to be dispatched to different yards, it was usual practice to save time by building more than one ship from a particular set of drawings. In many cases, all the plans drafted would bear only the name of the class lead ship. As the era progressed, the practice of drafting 'post-completion' plans began, but such drawings are still fairly uncommon in the collections. The existence of the 1831 quarter gallery plan for Dublin suggests that she was the only vessel in the class to undergo this alteration [unless the names of any other vessels appear on the drawing]. I hope this is of use.
However plans do exist of her sister ship HMS Vengeur 1810 . These plans can be viewed on the following links
The only plan found is of the alterations to HMS Dublins 'quarter ' in 1831:
The best idea of what this ship must have looked like is in this drawing found on Wikipedia
Thought that you might find this link interesting showing values of money over the years compared with today
Another small piece of information found on 'Naval Data base ' http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/18-1900/S/04085.html
Another small piece of information found on 'Naval Data base ' http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/18-1900/S/04085.html
It appears HMS San Joseph remained in Hamoaze ,Plymouth as
Guard ship whilst Joseph was assigned to her January to August
1835 .This followed his return after a 3 year trip on
board HMS Dub
It appears HMS San Joseph remained in Hamoaze ,Plymouth as Guard ship whilst Joseph was assigned to her January to August 1835 .This followed his return after a 3 year trip on board HMS Dublin
Updates November 2012
I have been back to the National Archives yesterday to try and tidy up loose ends on my research web page for Joseph Dance Royal Marine. Could you update it and remove previous references to my research for the periods that he was at sea. They were extremely helpful as an easily accessible record leading to my final findings below but when read now they are confusing and in some cases incorrect ie Andromeda wasn't a prison Ship going to Australia !!
I have found a Sketch book made by a Leiutenant Coote Carroll Nelson of the journey. Quite a find as he was on board at the same time as Joseph. Here is a link to a few of the pages someone has uploaded.
It is held at the National
Maritime museum under the reference ART/ 9. If I visit I will photo some of them. In the meantime I have attached one
(right) of a Ship at Plymouth in Hamoaze (
Plymouth Sound )
Correct details to
date !! 8th November 2012
Joseph Dance entered into service with Royal Marines
October 1820 ( Attestation
book ref ADM 158/218)
Joseph Dance entered into service with Royal Marines
October 1820 ( Attestation
book ref ADM 158/218)
1881 through to October 1823 stationed Plymouth (
musters ADM 96/392, ADM 96/397, ADM 96/402 )
26th October 1823
to December 1825 , 74 gun
third rate ship of the line and
carrying total 650 men of which 135
men were Royal Marines.
Gibraltar ( carrying 12th Regiment of foot.) -
Barbados- St Vincent - Dominica - Bermuda - Lisbon - Portsmouth
References: ship musters ADM 37/6874, through to
ADM 37/ 6879 incl.
HMS Java - HMS
21 July 1826 to December 1829,52 gun fourth rate ship of the line and carrying total 450 men. Transferred to HMS Andromeda in November 1829 before disembarking in Plymouth in Dec 1829.
Plymouth to East
Indies (Fitted out as flag ship in the East Indies)
- Singapore - Pula Penang -
Madras - Cape - St Helena - Ascension - ( HMS Andromeda )
References :station musters ( Plymouth ) embarking ADM 96/417 , Ship musters HMS Java ADM 37/7552 through to ADM 37/7559 , HMS Andromeda ships muster 37/8546 station muster ( Plymouth ) disembarking ADM 96/432
May 1831 to
September 1834 ,50 gun fourth rate ship of the line
Plymouth - Rio de Janeiro - Lima - Coquimbo
- Rio de Jeneiro - Valpraiso - Rio de Janeiro - Valpraiso - Rio de
Janiero - Valpraiso - Callao - Rio de Janiero - Plymouth
References: station muster (Plymouth ) ADM 96/442 embarking
, Ships musters ADM 37/8042 through
to ADM 37/8047
September 1834 to October 1838 has still to be researched. I have been unable to find station musters for Plymouth as number sequencing appears to have changed .I need to get some advice on this !
May 1824 HMS Superb. Deserters in Barbados.
Sifting through my previous research about Joseph Dance ( 1800 - 1847 ) Royal Marine from 1820 to 1838 I found I needed to make another trip back to the National Archives to fill the gaps . Life must have been very hard on board ship. He was discharged after 18 years service as suffering from vertigo and 'a good deal knocked kneed ' which could have been down to a poor diet at sea. At the National Archives in Kew I looked through many ships musters and managed to locate his deployments .
He definitely travelled the world !
muster books would have travelled around with the ship as a record of
the men on board and their pay.It is fortunate that they also include a lot
more information like Ship location, victualling, date of embarkation,where
crew member came from , their age and place of birth. I have attached a
photo so you can see how fragile these books are today , almost 200
years on !. I have only attached a few photos but have photos of
every entry with Josephs name and Ship or station from 1820 to 1834.
His first dispatch to sea was on board HMS Superb for 3 years from 1823
to 1825 . He was married to Ann Peperrell and by the time he had arrived home
his first child Elizabeth Mary was born and was 1 year old.
Can you please add to my text that Joseph embarked onto HMS San Josef in 20th March 1835 to 31st August 1835 . His second son William Henry was born in Stonehouse, Plymouth this year and Hannah Louise in 1938 the year that Joseph left the Royal Marines.
Joseph is at home in Plymouth for 15 months
1823 HMS Superb ships musters (
1823 HMS Superb ships musters ( Pay book
HMS Superb in Barbados in 1824
Joseph Dance on board HMS Superb.
HMS Java muster showing Joseph Dance disembarked 1829
Research references to date are :
Attestation/discharge record book ADM 158/218
Plymouth Division station musters 1821
ADM 96/392 in Plymouth
HMS Superb ships musters
1822 June - 1823 Nov ADM 37/6874